These are the top ten things I wish I'd known about homeschooling. Of course, people did tell me these things, I just didn't believe them.
1. Homeschooling is addictive. Once you start, it's difficult to stop.
You don't have to take my word for it. Go ahead. Try it. I dare you.
2. Most learning goals will be reached even if parents teach nothing. If the resources are available, kids will learn whether anyone meant them to or not. Nobody will believe this.
3. Parents should buy resources they need. Kids ask things that aren't in their books and, wouldn't you know it, you can't tell them to ask their teacher.
4. Parents need a support group. On-line. In person. Anything.
Especially if they live in some isolated location where nobody else homeschools. Living on the fringe is only exciting for awhile. Then it gets lonely.
5. Don't expect a typical homeschooling day to be anything like the next typical homeschooling day. And don't bother asking anyone what a typical homeschooling day looks like either. You're likely to get a blank stare or a panicked expression.
6. If you say 'funding', DUCK. There's no way you'll understand this Unless you're a homeschooler and have heard a funding conversation. Look, if you're curious about this, just wander into a homeschooling convention, raise your hand, and ask where you can apply for funding... Remember to duck!
7. Some homeschoolers use a lot of packaged curriculum. Some use less. We're paranoid about admitting that we use any of it to those unschoolers who have mastered item number 2 on this list. They claim they don't need any. Still, a lot of us must buy the packaged stuff since so many companies exist to sell it. So, go ahead and buy it if it works.
8. Most teachers and principals will not be pleased when you tell them you homeschool. Naïve? Well, the principal at one school threw open the doors to the supply room and encouraged me to help myself to whatever we could use. The reception at our next location was somewhat cooler.
9. Homeschooling is easier than it sounds.
10. Homeschooling is harder than it sounds.
Those last two statements don't contradict each other. They only seem to.
Buzz Words: homeschool, top ten, teaching, school, education, learning, homeschooling, parenting, information, curriculum, funding, parents, kids, co-op, teacher, homeschool moms, sahm, funny, humor, support group
30 comments:
My top #1 is:
Homeschooling is fun! There were many reasons we chose to homeschool but the best reason we will continue to homeschool is because it's fun.
and #2 is:
Homeschooling allows you to beat the crowds at touristy places, parks, museums, etc. because you can go when everyone else is at school.
#3:
School-age children are better equipped to help out than toddlers. It seems to me that our society makes us send the kids away just as they are getting useful LOL! For example: since we've been homeschooling I would be at a loss to go shopping without ds. Who would bag the groceries? who would load the cart? Who would I send to retrieve the one item I forgot as I'm in the checkout line? Who would unload the car?
Oh, did I mention that homeschooling is fun? LOL
I was just fingering my way around the web this morning before we started school and somehow I stumbled onto your blog.What a blessing.
I love your blog. It's very cheerful and you have some great blog entries. I hope you don't mind if I add you to my RSS feeds.
from a fellow homeschool mom in Christ,
Mikki at
http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/ClagettsFLStyle/
Oh, wait, you forgot...
11.) Homeschooling robs my child of valuable social interaction.
12.) Homeschooling retards my child of the nessasary skills needed to avoid real life bad situations and influences when they are older because they never learn (with my guidence) how to recognize them early on.
13.) Homeschooling ensures that my child never fully appreciates how remarkable many of lifes wonders can be because they have only been exposed to a very narrow view. (note: if you're rich and travel a lot then disregard this one) without the benefit of emotional and intellectual exchange with their peers.
14.) Homeschooling enables me (as a parent) to continue to avoid the things I find frustrating with our society by focusing all of my God given energy on my child instead of truly trying to make a difference and improve the community I live in (which, in turn, still benefits my child).
I, personally, dislike the public school systems (probably for many of the same reasons as you). However, my own daughter gets opportunities with art and music that I could not provide no matter how rich I was. That's why I am involved with her school and her work and her emotional health. Wearing blinders because you're afraid of all the bad influences and crappy standards isn't going to fix the problems. You are Christian and therefore supposed to be community minded, yet are afraid of your community. Maybe you should not immediatly justify why you think my rebuttal is wrong and actually try to examine what the "roots of evil" are and quit hacking at the branches. God made you a "thinking" creature. Animals react, we're supposed to be logical and by nessesity, communal.
I never understood why strangers find it necessary to tear someone they do not know apart. It just makes them sound jealous and bitter. Can I say "jerk" in your comments section? B/c that's what Mr. Adam is. :) People pass judgement too quickly...just b/c you homeschool doesn't mean you keep them chained in the basement. They have friends.
Anyway, enjoyed this post. Makes me wish Meredith was old enough to finger paint and learn shapes and colors.
Yes, it would have been much more appropriate to respond to such a wonderful positive post, if he felt he must defend himself, with the positive things he saw in public schooling. (and positive things that were not just turned around negatives) because public schooling CAN be positive, if the parents stay involved. And the choice of schooling is always on a tradeoff by the parents in what they value most (And sometimes what they can do. My mother would not have been a good homeschooler. It's just not her temperment to keep us on task.)
For some it is a no-brainer. For others, in different circumstances, it may be a harder pick.
I ALWAYS thought I would be a stay at home mom. But the situation is such that, now I am pregnant, I am looking at having to go back to work for at least a year while my husband finishes school. Situations change and things are not always what you wish them to be.
..and as well you forgot
15)Homeschooling avoid my children to get shoot by disturbed classmates!!
16)Homeschooling keep away the pressure of the typical "I'm the queen/prince of the prom" american stupid behavior.
17)Homeschooling keeps away the typical "sons of frustrated and aggressive parents" whoare always present in every class, to bully my children!
Now, sorry for those lines,but after reading what Mr Adam wrote, thats what my heart told me..I live in Europe and I have to tell you that the news that comes here from your country,are always disastrous, starting from the president..anyway, I just wrote to tell you that I think that homeschooling is a great idea!
Bye, Raf
My top #1 is the same as yours: 'Homeschool is fun'... but a close second would be 'Homeschool is addictive!'
I grew up never thinking I would even have kids (I was a punk and completely self-centered and mixed up)... who would have known that I would be a mom to two great kids, happily married, Christian, and HOMESCHOOLING! You are right (My Boaz's Ruth) that situations change and things are not always as you imagine them to be. I love my kids, love homeschooling, and even on our bad days... we can always redeem them by snuggling up on the couch and reading a good book, drinking hot chocolate and playing out in the snow, going to the park with friends, or taking a fun field trip in town.
Here are my comments to everyone (mixed together to save time):
FIELD TRIPS (Green Darner) - YES, YES, YES. This is our favorite way to learn (hence my series I post on Fridays here: "Field Trip Foto Friday").
I hear you on the school-age kids helping out. My kids are awesome. They do laundry, help cook, help me organize, help me with research at the library, keep their rooms clean, etc. I told them I just didn't know what I was going to do when they went away to college in ten years! Maybe we should have another two kids so we can have 20 more years with babies at home instead. Then I can help out with my grandkids when the younger set go away to college! :)
Mikki - WELCOME! ;) Glad you added me to your RSS Feeds. I'll be sure to stop over at your site.
ADAM LAVEY - I think maybe I should direct you to the post for today (about socialization). It must have been a God thing that I was putting that post together last night at midnight even before I knew that you were going to come in here on the defensive. With words like 'rob', 'retard', 'narrow', 'react'... you sure are attempting to raise the hair on my arms and neck.
I think you should not be so quick to 'justify why you think' I am 'wrong'. Why don't we turn the tables a bit? Do you know homeschool children and parents personally? If so, how many? How much research have you done about homeschooling? Have you ever been to a homeschool book fair? Have you ever been on a homeschool field trip? Have you studied homeschool curriculum? If so, then you would be 'qualified' to have an educated alternate opinion. That type of opinion from someone who disagreed would be respected (even if I declined to agree). Coming in here and attacking homeschool with these false claims is doing nothing but showing you are not educated about the facts.
Here's a complete breakdown of your claims:
11. Homeschool robs child of valuable social interaction:
My kids spent the entire day yesterday (yes, a weekday!) at a friend's house with three other little boys ranging in age from 3 to 9, we also went to their church, they played games, had physical activity, and then shot hoops with my friend's husband before they closed the church at 9pm. I would say that it is pretty social to meet new people and hang out with your friends (without teachers slapping you on the hand for passing notes). My kids also write letters each week to other kids, family members, and the child in India that we sponsor. They attend field trips and write thank-you letters to all of the guides that help with these field trips. They get compliments every where I go about how great they are to be around (from adults). I feel they are better socialized than most of all the kids I have ever met their age that are public-schooled.
12. Homeschool retards my child of necessary skills needed to avoid real life bad situations and influences:
What are you talking about? My kids have to deal with public school kids at church and they have learned well how to deal with bad situations. There was a little bully kid in my daughter's 2nd grade class (she's a third grader, but is 7 so she goes to the 2nd grade class to be with her age group). This kid pushed her down on the ground at recess after church and my son saw it happen. My son went and told the little boy to leave his sister alone. When the child pushed my son and knocked him down, my son told the little boy he was going to tell the teacher. The teacher made him sit out (like public school, there can be no REAL discipline). The kid continued to bother my kids (although most all of the other kids - including the older kids at church - LOVE my kids). My son told this kid that the next time he messed with him, he was going to tell this kid's parents what he was doing. The kid never messed with him again (but glares at him in the hallway and avoids both me and my husband like cancer!). Not only all of this, but we pray for this kid because we know he must have bad self-esteem to push other kids around. My daughter always waves and says Hi to this boy anyway, even though she has been allowed to go to the third grade class now instead of staying in her age group. She is now having fun and making friends with the third graders who have all welcomed her and are polite.
My kids are learning quite well what to do with bullies. We simply take it to the higher authority: God first, Teacher or Boss or Parent next. That is the Christian way.
13. Homeschooling ensures my child never fully appreciates how remarkable many of life's wonders are because they are only exposed to a narrow view:
This is ridiculous. Abraham Lincoln lived in a log cabin and hardly traveled at all, taught himself law, and became the president of the US - without traveling abroad. My kids have been in three states, have homeschooled in numerous cities, and have made friends of all shapes, colors, sizes, ages, and nationalities. We read extensively, and plan to travel to Europe next summer. They are far from sheltered. We also take more field trips in ONE year than the average public school student will get in ALL of their school years COMBINED. AND, we go on those field trips when masses of people are not present so that we can maximize the guides and learning information (getting added benefits that public school hordes will not get - even if they were to take the SAME field trip). We are part of co-ops and other activities outside the home where the kids are around other children. They have buddies and cousins and church friends that they see weekly or monthly. They are not "locked up in the basement" as Sara said so appropriately.
14. Homeschooling allows the parent to avoid frustrations and society instead of making a difference in their community.
HA! Ask any political campaign office how many homeschoolers they have had helping out. I know homeschool families delivering Meals on Wheels, cleaning up parks on their weekends, helping create robots that are designed to help the disabled... homeschool kids to help out at their SPCA, go on mission trips, raise money for charity, visit nursing homes, live in orphanages and foster other kids, bake cookies for librarians, help out blind or old people, mow people's yards for free, baby-sit, teach Bible classes, tutor failing public school kids, teach piano at a discount, write books about helping siblings get along, give lectures, offer community services, deliver newspapers, blog, visit or write to prisoners and participate in Angel Tree to help prisoner's families, help with hurricane clean-up, stock food pantries, donate allowance to good causes, pray for those in harm's way, web design, and just plain be good friends to others (even others who are NOT homeschoolers). Your argument is moot, and your assumptions are FALSE. Please do your research before making claims like this.
If you dislike public school, you should seek an alternative. There are homeschool bands, homeschool choirs, homeschool art classes, and even homeschool art prodigies. There are also local sports, local music teachers, and local clubs (4-H, Robotics, Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, AWANA, etc.) that offer these types of extra-curricular chances for children who are homeschooled. I have a friend who has her homeschool kids taking lessons from MASTER musicians who have played in the orchestra and are well-known (piano and guitar). My daughter got an art easel (nice wooden one) and a set of oils, acrylics and water-color paints and brushes for Christmas. We do arts and crafts at home (and spend more time on the things we love to do than most public school kids get to spend in their entire career at school). I got to paint ONE CANVAS at school at age 11. ONE. I did spectacularly well. My art teacher allowed me and one other girl that year to sit out for six weeks to paint (had to get special permission from the principal). Every art class I took after that, I was NEVER allowed to paint, even though I wanted to. Although I won some art competitions, I never ended up becoming an artist. I had no time or money to go to art school after I got out of public school... so even public school kids who DO TAKE ART in public school MAY STILL end up working like a slave at a desk job in the REAL world. Public school gave me no advantage. It didn't make my parents rich enough to afford an Art College. My step-sister, who married a rich man, went to INTERIOR DESIGN school. My step-sister (after her public schooling and Art college graduation) had to go get a waitressing, then retail, and now a secretarial job to support herself because she couldn't find a job in that field. Did her public school - or even her college career - give her special status? No.
You say you are involved with your child and your child's school. GOOD FOR YOU! So am I. I never said that all public schoolers, public school teachers, or public school parents are bad. I just don't like the system... and apparently, nor do you! If you are aware of the low standards and bad influences, that is a start. Then maybe you can seek to help your child rise above the standards and maybe you can work with your child daily to ensure that she doesn't 'become' the standard and succumb to the influences. I pray you will have success.
You are correct that Christians should be community minded. I certainly am. We pray for our public school peers and we seek to better our children as a GIFT to society. Examining the evil in society allows us to know where we should avoid placing our children so that they are not tainted by it. Once they are full, mature 'Oaks of Righteousness' - 'Plantings of the Lord'... then they can 'Display His splendor' to a dying world. They can SHINE in the darkness and be there for the lost to lean on.
Isaiah 61:1-3 ~
The Year of the LORD's Favor
1 The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me,
because the LORD has anointed me to preach good news to the poor.
He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives
and release from darkness for the prisoners,
2 to proclaim the year of the LORD's favor
and the day of vengeance of our God, to comfort all who mourn,
3 and provide for those who grieve in Zion — to bestow on them a crown of beauty instead of ashes,
the oil of gladness instead of mourning, and a garment of praise instead of a spirit of despair.
They will be called oaks of righteousness, a planting of the LORD for the display of his splendor.
This comment is getting to be a book... I'll answer the rest of you in the next one!
Sara - Well, although my first reaction would have been to start calling names, I think we should just assume that Mr. Lavey doesn't know what he's talking about - maybe if he sticks around and reads more than just one of my posts, he'll see that my kids aren't stunted, backwards, narrow-minded little freaks (like he seems to think they are now).
I loved those photos of the sleet man! SO CUTE. Except... your sleet man is a woman... either that, or a transvestite. ;)
Meredith will be old enough for colors and shapes soon enough. Homeschooling starts with birth! I used to take Kaden and Morgan around on my hip and talk to them about everything I was doing. They cooked, cleaned, and did everything on my hip. Kaden was making all his animal noises and saying a few words at 9 months! Morgan didn't start that early, but they are both really smart cookies today. Flash cards and just plain conversation in those early years will do wonders. :) You are already charting the waters!
My Boaz's Ruth: Yes, you are right, homeschooling isn't for everyone. There are bad parents at public school and bad ones who homeschool. There are those who are unable to do it for financial reasons, for practical reasons, or whatever reason... and I don't look down on them. I just hope that their kids are able to rise above the fray.
I hope you'll be able to be a stay-at-home mom soon. Those years are so precious... and they only happen once. I regret having to work for two years after my son was born and two year after my daughter turned 1. I did what I had to do. We all make our own choices based on what we think is best for our families. We finally just scaled back on our expenses so that we could CHOOSE to do what we felt was best for our family. Sure, I miss my 2500 sf house and being in Texas. Would I go back and stick the kids in public school so that I could have that all back? No.
Raf - Thanks for giving us a uniquely European view. I appreciate you taking the time to comment on this issue. I'm glad that there are some in Europe who agree that homeschooling is a great idea. I hear that homeschool rules over there are very strict and harsh. Especially in Germany where some people are prosecuted and imprisoned. I pray that you will have the same freedoms to educate your kids as you see fit over in your country. God bless.
Funny you should mention "I'm the queen/prince of the prom - American stupid behavior". That is precisely what won my husband over to the idea that homeschooling couldn't be "all that bad". He was in Iraq and a man there asked him, "Are all the teenagers in America like Brittany Spears?" He says that at that moment, he began to tell this man about how we homeschool our kids and how there is a "counter-culture" in America that is trying to raise up Godly kids that will be good and filled with Christian morals. This man befriended him and has sent us Christmas cards every year since my husband has been home from over there! He is a Muslim by birth. He is such a nice person and his daughters all email us and tell us that they hope to come overseas and meet us one day in person.
First things first...
#1: Yes, I attacked you with negative terminology. I did it for a reason. I was feeling you out. I was also very careful to have a thought out opinion and arguement even if I didn't support all of my facts. The reasons, later.
#2: You replied with an arguement and your opinion and some facts to support it. Thank you, but now I am even more confused. The reasons, later.
#3: I have a friend, you may remember him, Karl Bakla. I love my friend. Despite his language (which I don't dissaprove of and I hold the same beliefs regarding swear words), he is one of the most open minded, helpful and supportive people I know. He recently made an observation about how he is frustrated with the social clique that many Christians have and how they support open criticism of others yet attack anyone that criticises them. I agree with him because judgement is reserved for God yet many Christians forget this every day.
#4: You judged him without logic, arguement or reason and, worst of all, unsolicited. Remember this...
"Sprittibee said...
Wow. I got sucked in here by Technorati, but was amazed that you would use that kind of language in a post with your daughter's photo. Does she hear you say things like this? Does she know you are "talking s--t about people"? I'll pray for your family and your little girl. You should take it as a compliment that some little Christian kid told your daughter about God. It means they CARE. When you have something good, it is quite natural to want to share the news with others.
P.S. I probably won't come back in here to read your snide remarks after I post this, so if you want to leave one on my blog (without cuss words), feel free."
It doesn't even pertain to what he was trying to say! You didn't read it you merely glanced at it and made assumptions then judgements.
#5: I won't speak for him. I will speak for me. Anytime you want to comment on anything I have to say on my blog, please do. I crave and relish alternate viewpoints, opinions and arguements. It's how I (everyone, actually) learn and open ourselves up to new ideas. Just don't come across the blogsphere with closeminded hypocritical crap. Have a viewpoint and an arguement. You obviously have a brain and can formulate an arguement. I just can't understand why you felt the need to perpetuate the close-minded judgementality that too many Christians have today.
End of points
With all of that said, please leave this up on your posts and own up to it. Then, please re-read his blog and try to understand what it is he was trying to say. I will happily reply to your arguement about homeschooling if I see this post still up in a few days.
One last note... To anonymous, I lived in Europe for three years, so please don't pretend that Europe is some kind of urban utopia. Every society has it's own set of problems.
Adam -
You didn't cuss in your post - therefore I would have no reason to delete it (and I'm still not sure what your stance on cussing is, because your friend can't seem to get through ONE line of print without some sort of five-star cuss word). I don't normally go and leave messages on people's blogs like your friend's - it was a serious fluke that I even ended up there. I was just dumbfounded by the hate and foul language and that sweet little girl's face in the middle of it all. I felt like maybe if I made the connection between his precious child and the filth he is spewing that he might have a thought in his head about what he's doing. If he talks like that in front of her, he is stunting her future (speaking purely as a MOTHER, not a CHRISTIAN here). Just picture her trying to go for an interview somewhere in the future ... she would not get hired if she couldn't make it through a sentence without cussing using the full alphabet of nasty words available. Not only from a Christian standpoint is cussing wrong, but from a practical standpoint - fitting in to society (like you were arguing for earlier)... it is a social skill that we all should learn... how to speak your mind without using words that make you sound like you were educated in a tripple-X porn shop.
NEWSFLASH: I used to be a person who cusses. I used to be a person who drank, and smoked, and did drugs, and partied, and you pretty much name it. I am NOT pointing my finger at the man and saying I am better (which is how you are seeing it obviously - which in itself is closeminded!).
I was merely trying to explain that 1. It shocked me to see all those cuss words next to his little girl's photo, 2. I was trying to get the connection of the little girl and the cussing together to maybe wake him up to the possibility that it wasn't good for her to hear all of that (because she will copy it), 3. I wanted to let him know that someone can actually comment on his blog without the use of attacks, cuss words and name-calling, and 4. I wanted to explain that the little kid (while being a bit too blunt with his childish wording) was probably telling his daughter about hell because he CARED. Kids can't always be expected to be great orators.
I was not being hypocritical (see definitions below). I was being honest and sharing a constructive critisizm that if taken in practice, would better him and his child for the future (had nothing to do with salvation - just pure social skills and understanding).
I also did it in love (offering to pray for them and REALLY doing it)... and I did it even though I knew he was going to attack me (and man, his remarks are gross). I would call that anything but 'closeminded' and 'hypocritcal'. Just the fact that I was willing to spark up a conversation with him went against my better judgement - seeing his responses to the people before my comment. I'd say that was as open-minded as you can get that I would read his post (ignoring the trash-talk) and get out of my "comfortable Christian circles" to actually comment. I am a non-confrontational person and do NOT like being in flame-zones on the net. Just because I CAN argue and debate does not mean that I thrive on it. I don't talk a lot of politics, doctrinal issues, controversial social issues, nor politics in here... mainly because I DON'T like to argue.
Just so you know this: God knows I can't say anything about being better than another sinner. Like Paul in the Bible, I believe "I was the worst" of them and still do sin - even though I try not to. I wasn't accusing your friend of sinning. I have learned a lot of things from the love I have for my kids. They make me want to rise above the sinful behaviors I have displayed in my life. It wasn't until my son was old enough to talk that I quit saying "OH MY G-D!". One night in a restaurant, my son stood up and said that really loud. It made my skin crawl. I wanted to wash his mouth out with soap it sounded so bad. To hear that precious innocent kid say that out loud convicted me to my core. I vowed that I wouldn't ever take the Lord's name in vain like that again. That moment - that day - that phrase became a cuss-word in my house. That doesn't mean that my kid tells everyone they are going to hell if they say it. I have lots of friends who have not been so convicted in their own hearts. I hear other kids that homeschool, kids at church, etc... saying that phrase. Like my experience with this, I hope your friend realizes when he hears his daughters repeating him that he should make a change for their sake.
I don't judge your friend (that IS God's place). I just can't stand listening to that kind of language... and I can't stand the thought of his sweet daughter having to hear it day in and day out.
On your points:
1. Still not sure why you are attacking homeschooling. Either you really feel the way you said, or you were lying so you would have something to attack me about... (either way that seems rather odd).
2. My argument was not tactless. I have never personally attacked anyone in the blogosphere... not you, not your friend (even though other people have attacked me). I had never been on your friend's site previous to that day, and quite frankly, after seeing his response to a honest and curteous comment, I wouldn't go back again.
3. I don't understand what you are talking about when you say that Christians "suppport open criticism, but attack anyone who criticises them". What Christian is attacking people? Your friend's words are an assault, not any other Christian blogger's words that I know.
4. I did not judge your friend. I also did not comment without logic. My comment was the most polite in the comments section. Seemed to me like everyone else was cussing eachother out and calling eachother names. I also read his sidebar and other posts by him before I made that comment. His blog is full of profanity and yuck. It is a place I would block my kids from ever getting near. There is logic in that - believe me. Plus, I was merely telling him WHY his child was told about God. Not attacking him. Also, if someone said they would go to hell because they didn't believe in God, they are not ATTACKING, they are simply telling you the TRUTH (albeit with a little lack of tact). Don't hate the messenger and call them names just because they tell the truth. His child doesn't have to listen, doesn't have to believe it, and doesn't have to become a Christian. There's no Jihad war going on. It is just one six year old to the next - having a conversation. If Christian kids have to sit in class and learn diversity about Islam, Evolution, and every other thing they don't agree with... why is it so weird for others to hear a Biblical statement? I think that is FAIR, not hypocritical.
I doubt your friend felt attacked even if my comment was unsolicited. Seems like he got a perverse thrill out of it regardless of your valiant attempts to protect his honor.
Let me define what you are calling me:
Closeminded - not ready to receive to new ideas
Hypocritical - a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess
How can you say I am closed to ideas it if you haven't told me an idea. What idea are we discussing here? If you mean cussing up a storm, you can't possibly think I am closed-minded towards it when I have not only tried it out, but could have probably whupped your buddy at it in the past. I sounded like Yosimite Sam back in 'the day'.
As for being hypocritical, I'm just not with you on that one, either. I 'aint asking him to do anything I haven't already done - simply not cuss in front of his kids? Really! That should be a no-brainer ... even to an athiest. What person who loves their kids doesn't want them to grow up and be respected by others?!
Don't worry about the homeschool argument. You're not going to change my point of view on that. Not because my mind is closed, but because we've tried all the options (open-minded) and chosen the one that fits our family's needs.
That was nice of you for trying to defend your buddy, but I assure you... I had already forgotten posting over there when you left your message the first time and had no intention of going back. When you reminded me about it, I went back like you asked and read his response. I was right not to want to go back over there. So if you came in here just to get me to go read his rude remarks, you win.
Now lets get back to our own blogs and I'll continue to do my thing (including discussing homeschooling) and you guys can continue to do whatever it is that you do.
I don't know who you are or why you are taking an interest in my daughter's welfare, but let me clue you in on a few parenting tips of mine:
1. "Cuss" words . . .ooh . . . My stance on language in general is that there is no such thing as a "bad" word. All words are forms of communication and must be used carefully. My daughter would be scolded to the same degree whether or not she called some one a "meanie-head" or an "a-hole" (I'm only editing this, because I respect the rules of your blog and hope that you leave my comment posted). In addition to this, we have taught our daughter that there are people who are offended by certain words based on misfocused rules that they were raised with; therefore, we shouldn't say anything that may hurt someone's feelings. I can vouch that this has been a successful rule as my daughter has NEVER been in trouble for saying anything bad - jerk, a-hole, b-tch, etc. EVER! The naughty stigma has been removed from "cuss" words, and she has no interest in saying them to rebel.
2. My daughter asks me all of the time if I believe in god. I have always followed a rule of not forcing such a HUGE decision, such as religion, upon her. It is a very adult decision that each must make for themself. When she asks me this, I consistently tell her that I don't; however, if she ever has any interest or wants to learn about different religions that I will support her and help her. I can only assume that you have already made this choice for your child, and reminiscing about my religiously raised friends, I can tell you that this is a huge mistake and a one-way ticket to an overly rebellious child.
On another note - do not assume that my daughter won't have a bright future because her father and I are atheists and use "cuss" words. My daughter is extremely intelligent, caring, and talented. She is an advanced dancer, and a straight A student with a lot of friends who love her company.
I don't feel that I need to defend myself, but you claim to be open minded and thought you may enjoy some of this information.
I enjoy learning from other people, and wish that I learned something from your rantings, but haven't. You did; however, help solidify my theory that born again christians are just addicts finding a new addiction. Its always those who can't handle the pressures and changes of life who need a crutch to lean on. Your religious addiction is the same, and maybe even as dangerous as a drug addiction. I did enjoy how you tried to defend a child, who only learned this from his "christian" family, from telling another child that she will burn in hell. I'm not so upset about the hell part, as that is just a scare tactic used by your peeps. I am upset about the burning factor - I think that before you threaten people with this you should spend some of your time in the burn unit of an ICU - its devastating and I can't believe that I christian would wish that on anyone, especially a child. See my tip #1 for lessons on preventing children from saying hurtful things.
You are a inspiration to us all.
Sincerely,
The girlfriend of the "cusser", and mother of the "sweet little girl in the middle of it all" who according to your kind will burn in hell or worse become a lesbian - ahhhhhhh.
Adam,of course European aren't perfect,the human race, despite being dotated of intelligence(unfortunately not everybody,and some use it in the wrong way) keeps repeating the same errors on and on..and we are on the verge of destroying our own planeth..if this isn't stupid..(I bet we destroyed long time ago some other planet, then we flyied to hearth,to keep on..)but talking about the "typical american way of life"you have to accept that people criticize the errors, and praise the goodness, now the only problem is that as I say the only news about USA that comes here are about:
1)Jerry Springer show(when I use to live in London)
2)Groups of policemen beating up single "usually black" boy
3)Children shooting classmates
4)Nannies torturing/beating children they are taken care of
5)Usual movies about teens were the goodlooking/rich one are the adored one and the other being bullied, causing them desire of vengeance and hate
6)Death row sentences
7)Some soldiers torturing and taking pict of iraqui prisoners(time ago)
8)Bush talking with his doggies(he should stick on that,and sorry if u like him..obviously I don't)
So...or your tv decide to give a better image of your country..or that is the idea that we get about it..and I have to tell that I've been there on holidays, long time ago and I loved it,it's a beautiful country and I wish the actual image would be different!
Raf
Bethany, Your boyfriend posts a blog on the internet. He also posts photos of your daughter. If he didn't want comments, he should make his blog private. Not knowing who I am is the name of the game with blogging... people are able to leave comments without face-to-face contact... you just read and comment... simple as that.
Thank you for respecting my rules regarding cussing on my blog. I figured you felt that way about them or you wouldn't be dating your boyfriend. You don't have to tell me your stance on them, as I can figure that out by the fact that you use them. I'm glad that you request that your daughter NOT use them, but kids seem to pick up our own habits, and not just our instructions.
I'm also glad that you are supportive of your daughter if she decides to look into the existence of God. That's nice of you since you don't believe yourself. Religion is not what we teach in my house. I demonstrate to my kids to the best of my ability what it is like to have a relationship with Christ. I practice what I preach as best I can. I don't require them to do anything I don't try and do myself. I'm not one of those weekend or holiday Christians that points fingers at others and then lives like a heathen the rest of the week-days between church services. I grew up in a mixed family (one atheist, one Christian). The atheist was also a substance abuser and such. That is where my baggage comes from - and the choices I made because of those standards set before me. It was not because of an overly strict Christian upbringing.
No one knows what the future will bring for my kids (or yours), but I'm doing what I think is best for them by spending all of my time and energy on raising them right. You can only do the same for your daughter.
Your snide remarks in my comments section are not needed. "Addicts", "needing a crutch"... that is really not kind things to say to people... especially people who have been transparent and honest with you. That is amazing that you are so strong and brave that you can handle all that life dishes out to you without any form of spirituality. When troubles come in to your life (like they do for everyone on earth) or your children have to deal with death, disease or hardship of loved ones, it is good to know that they will be able to count on you to pull them through. I'm sorry that it appears weak to you that I pray and believe, but I don't care what you think. I am going to continue to rely on the Lord to get me through the rough times (He does a much better job than I do at everything). I'm sorry you don't know Him. He is really a great guy.
No one is attacking your daughter or assuming she is stupid. You don't need to give us her resume. You, nor I can know what her future will hold... only time will tell. I pray that it will be a bright one. I certainly never said she would burn in hell, that is only for God to decide for all of us individually. No other person can condemn a person in that way. We (Christians in general) only read the things that were written in the Bible and share them with others... we don't condemn people. Jesus talked quite a lot about hell. I wouldn't wish it on YOU, nor your boyfriend, nor your daughter - no matter what rude, snide, or sexual remarks you (or your boyfriend) have made about me or Christians in general. Jesus prayed for those who crucified him - so why should I not pray for you even if you seem to be my enemy?
My child doesn't tell people they are giong to rot in hell. I don't either. So you have no reason to worry about me. I can't say that the Bible doesn't warn about hell, but then you can read it and find out what it says yourself.
I also never mentioned the word lesbian (and don't think I've ever even typed that word into this blog before today). I have no idea where you got that idea or why you would connect it to cussing.
If you "don't feel you need to defend yourself", then why did you come in here to tell me your stance on cussing, tell me your daughter was an A student, tell me you ask her not to cuss, and tell me I was an addict and a weakling who needed a crutch through my religion? That seems like not only a defense, but an offense as well.
It is obvious that you and I don't see eye to eye, so I can't see how I am such an inspiration to you (unless of course, you were being sarcastic).
Sarcastic: "having or marked by a feeling of bitterness and a biting or cutting quality. Sarcastic suggests sharp taunting and ridicule that wounds"
Anyway, I wish you all the best and will pray that your daughter's future IS bright.
God bless.
Raf - We all know that Europe nor America are perfect. Just reading through the collective history of both you can find good and bad about them all throughout history. You said, "We are on the verge of destroying our own planet". I would not worry about this - all we can do is work towards being more environmentally concious and making better choices about the trash we throw out, the fuels we use, the emissions from our cars, and the oil we spill in the ocean. God is up there and watching over us all. When he comes back, we will get a new heaven and new earth. That doesn't mean we shouldn't take care of this one... but we shouldn't freak out about the future and live in fear, either. Not all of us live the "typical american way of life". I for one, am not living inside the box. I don't "keep up with the Jones'" and try and outdo my neighbors by buying stuff that is more expensive. I don't put my kids in public school. There are many Americans who are not like the ones you see in Hollywood or on the liberal, slanted, biased media. I find it sad that you are only getting news about the things you mentioned. Obviously you are able to go out and look for news on the net. I would suggest that you check out WorldNetDaily - and other alternative news sources that have more news about positive things. Most of the news we get about Europe is also negative, so you have to understand that mainstream media shouldn't be the only source of your info about another place.
I voted for Bush, but have been dissapointed in some of the policies and especially the FDA rulings (patents on genetically altered foods). I am conservative by nature, but don't think I can justify voting for either Republican NOR Democratic politicians. I am increasingly skeptical that any government official is really "by the people and for the people" in this country. I have been educated quite a bit on the system of things and really am jaded about it all. Not all Americans fit in your typical cookie mold. We are all people like you are and have our own thoughts and lives - quite seperate from our government and mainstream media's pictures.
I appreciate your comments and am glad to get a view from across the ocean. I think it is great that you have learned English and are willing to speak to us and bring your ideas across from over there. :)
Adam, I thought you had some good things to say, so I edited your nasty word stuff out and re-posted it for you. I deleted your original post. Please don't put cuss words in here (even those that are mildly altered). I am on a "family-friendly" blogroll and it is a strict rule I adhere to.
_____________________
Adam LaVey said...
Cuss words - Here's an example (admittedly stolen from Penn & Teller) If I quietly pet my dog in my lap while softly saying ****, the dog will wag it's tail and feel happiness towards me. If I put anger into my voice and tell the dog how much I love it, it will become scared and shy away from me. There are no bad words, only bad thoughts and intents. I, like Bethany, also teach my daughter about intent and hurtfulness and how they affect others and how people percieve her. I do not agree with making words somehow evil, to me that's a ridiculous notion because it only gives them a power they were never meant to have.
If you can't get past the cuss words than you may be wound a little too tight. Ignore them and they lose their power.
My reply about home schooling is, more or less, how I feel. I admit I put a more aggressive and cynical slant to it than I normally would have for the reasons stated. I have known two families that have attempted it and it failed miserably on both accounts. I also feel that one of the main problems with public school is that too many parents use them as a free babysitting service. I also feel it is important to contribute to my daughters school and be actively involved in her work and activities. Your personal beliefs aside, admittedly it does seem that you have a much stronger and positive climate in your area to make homeschooling successful.
Anytime any of us makes broad statements about others (especially without understanding the topic) is making assumptions and judgements. It is, sadly, human nature and can be a very important tool to, "get things done." However, it also leads to prejudice, hatefulness and elitism.
As for a christian clique. Please don't think for an instant that christian children don't gang up on and ridicule other kids. (Or adults on other adults for that matter) It happens, every day. If you justify it by saying things like "Spreading the good word." or "Rightiousness" it doesn't make it right. I don't tell anyone that Jesus is a fairytale and he is no greater man/avatar of God than Mohammed, Lao Tzu, Confusious, Budda, Thor or any other major religious figure (Okay, Thor was a stretch) unless they ask. If I saw you on the street and walked up to say, "Jesus is a bad jewish joke that got out of hand and hell doesn't exist but you will be eaten by the Black Beast of Og for not believing and digested in his stomach juices for eternity." How would that make you feel? Defensive, hurt, angry, shameful, pity? And it could be a revelation for me, found in some ancient text that my obscure little clan of gypsies found hundreds of years ago. Is it right? The point is people don't like to be told that thay are wrong and are going to pay for being wrong. Expecially when they are trying to figure out what path to follow. Do you think it's possible that maybe God, in his infinate wisdom, knew that people would vary in personalities and tastes so much that he actually planted the seeds for a host of religions (all leading back to one true God) so that people could explore their spirituality in a way they would accept? Oppression and Religious Dogma are forms of social controls that governments have hidden in terms like "One Nation Under God" and a plethora of other rhetoric since Egyption times. Do you think it could be possible that Politicians, since pre-history, have perverted the true word of God so that it's barely recognizable anymore? The book of Revelations does talk about the misguided twelve churches. I mean, I've read Jesus's teachings, as well as Lao Tzu, Confucious, Buddha and a few others and they are pretty similer in the overall tone and meaning. The whole point to this rant is... If I want to know what a Christian believes, I'll ask. If someone wants to know what I believe, I would hope that they'd ask me. Obviously I am opinionated but I am careful to save it unless asked (Blogs aren't excepted, as it's a poster for our opinions and thoughts, you still have to click on it aka ask, to read it)
To Raf, I am not a Bush supporter and, thankfully, I haven't seen a whole lot of him talking with his dogs or I would probably have to move back to Europe (Well, actually I plan to retire there). Actually you should probably click my name to check out my blog for how I feel about things regarding the good ol' US of A.
___________________________
I'll answer your comment on the next one...
Adam... I am trying to make this short. I can't keep up a running commentary in here because I have to attend to the more important things in my life. Also, while this has been an interesting interchange of words shared, I don't think either of us really believes that we are going to persuade the other or convert the other to our own way of thinking or living.
Therefore, I'll just post a few comments and we can call it quits on this thread and close this post down.
You are correct that good words or bad words can be used with bad intent. I still say that there are words that an educated person should not use. You can do what you want - it is your life. I agree with you that even good words can be used poorly and for the wrong reasons. This is an important point that we all should take note of. If I scream at my kids (even if I am correcting them for something they did wrong), I am sending a message of hate. Correction should be calm and proper. It should be done with the right motives. God judges our motives and our hearts for the things we say and do. We all should be aware that doing things that are good and saying things that are good... are only REALLY worthwhile if we do them for the right reasons and in love.
1 Corinthians 13:3 ~ "3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,[b] but have not love, I gain nothing."
Your comment about me not getting past cuss words is not necessary. Again, I am not going to cuss and whether you do or not (nor your opinions or stance) is going to change how I feel about cussing. Calling me "wound too tight" is just rudeness.
Homeschooling is only as good as how much you put in to it. There are homeschoolers who don't put out the effort to really work with their kids, and there are public school parents (like you said), who drop their kids off at school just to be rid of them (and are not involved in their kid's lives). We all should remember that we will reap what we sow.
Your comment: "Anytime any of us makes broad statements about others (especially without understanding the topic) is making assumptions and judgments."
I agree with this entirely (and it is one of the reasons I was calling you down on the facts about homeschooling).
You said: "Please don't think for an instant that Christian children don't gang up on and ridicule other kids."
I agree that many children are mean (we are all a fallen people). I grew up in public school, and like everyone else, endured my own share of the abuse that kids can dish out. I WANT TO POINT OUT TO YOU, THOUGH: There are kids who are raised in Christian homes that do not adhere to their parents' standards. There are also people who SAY they are Christian and yet do not ACT like they are (therefore they are NOT).
Even the Bible talks about people who CLAIM to be Christians, but do not follow what God desires:
Matthew 7:22-24 ~
22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. away from me, you evildoers!'
24"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
You are making one of those broad and sweeping generalizations here when you say Christians gang up on other kids ("Or adults on other adults"). You are also generalizing when you say, "It happens, every day." Prove it. I say if the "Christian" kids are ganging up on non-believing kids, they are NOT practicing Christians. So, therefore, your argument is invalid. My kids wouldn't do this. I wouldn't do this. I am a Christian and so far, my kids mostly act like Christians. Therefore your generalizations are wrong in my case… so on how many other cases are they wrong? We won’t know without facts.
Your comments about not saying ugly things about Jesus really don't fit in with this conversation. No one is saying ugly things about anyone. We're all being civil here. Whatever you feel about Jesus is irrelevant. Also, just because YOU choose not to believe in Him, doesn't make him not exist. Most Christians understand that there are millions out there who DON'T believe in Him... and I doubt it would be something they would give very much weight to if you said things that were negative about Him. I hear many non-believers take his name in vain when they are using every day language all of the time and do not yell or get up in their faces for it.
You said, "The point is people don't like to be told that they are wrong and are going to pay for being wrong. Especially when they are trying to figure out what path to follow."
None of us like being corrected. That is our nature. But if I said, "2+2=6", am I any less wrong if no one tells me about it? If they tell me I'm wrong and I choose to FIX the problem, GREAT. If they tell me I'm wrong and I choose to continue to think the wrong answer is right, GREAT. We all have a choice – and eventually, there will be a consequence. In this case, the consequence would be that I would never be able to get a normal job (since I couldn’t add right). We all have freedom to say what we want to whomever we want in this country as well (and like you said, on the internet). If we can't take the heat of correction, shouldn't we "get out of the kitchen"?
You said, "Do you think it's possible that maybe God, in his infinite wisdom, knew that people would vary in personalities and tastes so much that he actually planted the seeds for a host of religions (all leading back to one true God) so that people could explore their spirituality in a way they would accept?"
No. I don't. God doesn’t play games. I don't care to get into a deep philosophical and religious argument in here, because it has nothing to do with homeschooling and nothing to do with cussing (which was why you originally came over here to comment). If you would like to know what I believe and ask me questions about my doctrinal stances, please email me off blog. You can find my email address under my "Contact Me" section. I am sure the homeschool moms that read this blog are tired of this thread (or have stopped reading by now). My usual audience is already Christian in nature, as are most of my friends who stop in... so this would be a topic we should probably take to email as it may require more time than I have to offer via blog.
"One Nation Under God" is due to the fact that most all of the people in our country at the time of its birth were of Christian nature. It is not some kind of mind-control that the government was trying to adopt to control the people. We are far from that phrase today, and getting farther by the second. I find it sad, and pray for our nation often.
I do not find it possible that our Bible is so far from the original text because evidence shows (Dead Sea Scrolls) that it is nearly the exact same as it has always been. There is a spiritual aspect to the Bible also that I can not explain to you unless you are a Christian. It is not only the doctrines that I have faith in – it is a personal God. You can only know it through faith and a relationship with Christ. I have no doubts about the validity of the Word of God. I don't just read it, I can feel that it is the truth through the deposit of the Holy Spirit in my life. This sounds like nonsense to non-believers, but it is a very real thing. Try it, you might like it. There's a great song by Newsboys that tries to explain it. The lyrics are really cool: click here to read “Spirit Thing”.
You said, "The book of Revelations does talk about the misguided twelve churches."
The religions you spoke of (which many I have also read) are NOT similar. You are making a vast generalization to get to that. Again, though... this is not the place or time for a huge long doctrinal post... which would take the rest of my day to research and type. I have other things to attend to. If you do want to discuss these things, though, I am available through email.
You said, "The whole point to this rant is... If I want to know what a Christian believes, I'll ask."
I didn't seek you out to tell you what I believe about God. You came to my blog and began an argument about something totally non-related to Christianity. The whole reason is because you have a problem with Christianity. Not because you just want to tell me to keep my religion to myself. When I commented to your friend, it was to tell him that the little kid's motive was probably to HELP, not hurt his daughter. I wasn't saying that his method of telling her about God was correct. Who knows. Maybe that kid wasn't even a real Christian? Maybe his parents are murderers who pretend to be Christians? I have no idea. Most Christians I know would ONLY tell someone about HELL if they were really close friends with the person that they are talking to... and usually only out of concern for that person. Most Christians I know BEFRIEND someone before they even bring up religious topics and are very careful not to point fingers or judge. Many Christians (like myself) have been pretty serious sinners prior to becoming saved – and many still struggle with daily sin. I know that I wouldn't have enjoyed someone pointing fingers at me prior to my conversion... and I offer that same respect to anyone that I tell about Jesus. The point is, a six year old speaks in concrete terms and doesn't understand how to carefully discuss heavy topics like heaven or hell. So, therefore, his daughter should take what this kid said with a grain of salt and try INSTEAD to just see if the kid really IS a Christian by how they ACT. The Bible says we are known by our FRUITS (deeds).
Thanks for the discussion. God bless.
You dance around a point with out ever coming to one. Spirituality to you means, "believing in Jesus" and nothing else. I was mistaken, you are like most other Christians. I guess we're both sad at the state of our nation.
Isn't it crazy that you can create a post that has such a positive energy, and have someone come in and totally turn it into a negative personal rant?
Sprittibee, I want you to know that I find your blog to be entertaining, educational, and uplifting. I just went through a rough surgery and took a tiny break from homeschooling. But I wanted to see what other homeschooling families were up to, so this morning I came across your blog.
My hope is that Adam and Bethany will just stay in their own little world and not disrupt the homeschooling world with any more negativity.
Thanks for your kind comments, Robin. Glad you could stop by. :)
Oh, you forgot this one
11. Those who are wholly insecure and angry because they themselves don't have the intestinal fortitude to snub "the system" way of thinking and homeschool their children, will come to your blog and criticize you for enjoying your children.
BTW, I love the first argument Mr. LaVey gives for keeping his children in mediocre public schools- art and music. Well, hate to tell him, but for most school districts, that's the first thing that goes - art and music. In fact, they are non-existent in our county schools system.
I'm going to have to blog about this soon.
BTW, this isn't a socialist state, we are not obligated to stick with the pathetic schools just to help the "common good".
And, yes, for me spirituality is Christ and my relationship with him. Pure and simple.
Wow, I can't believe I made it through this whole post issue. I must say Sprittibee that you did an awesome rebuttal sticking to the points and saying it well. Thank you for the time you took. Blessings. http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/abiga51
Just today we learned in church about the natural man vs the spiritual man in 1 Cor. I guess this is clear,that the natural man clearly cannot understand the spiritual things of God. Which in my opinion makes these kinds of debates pointless. Great job though Sprittibee.
Susan
www.homeschoolblogger.com/mamaduso
All I can say is that I've learned lately that debate in this country and others can be used to pursuade others to your point of view but mostly it is to solidify your beliefs to yourself. I personnally live in an area that views homeschooling with skeptism even in my own church. At first I was trying to persuade others that what I was doing was noble and good. But even though a few are coming around not all are convinced and most don't want to agree with me because they have their own goals and views they are trying to achieve or prove. I've come to the conclusion that #1) I need to be very up on the politics going on in this country and voting and notifying our politicians of my views. #2) Debate keeps you sharp mentally and even if the other side doesn't realize that have lost the argument I know I've won. #3) Christians have often viewed being nonjudgemental as not making discernment between right and wrong. I think you can do that with love and thankfully politically in this country. The other side will call names to intimidate and shut down the dialogue. That's all they have. God is with you and that is all that matters. When you are persecuted in any way for your belief in Him does help grow your faith and therefore should be welcomed. But in my opinion the other side should not be allowed to control this country, therefore I hope All Christians will keep up with the politics of today and how it is and will affect our future as a free nation.
BTW I love your blog site. Thanks for letting me say what I had to say.
Julie in Texas
Eyecorn - Yes, I agree that sometimes homeschool seems to ruffle feathers because people are afraid of anything outside their own comfort zone. That is one reason why people tend to not challenge the "system". Being a Christian makes you automatically aware of the danger in following the multitudes (because narrow is the way and few are those who find it). I think my faith in Christ is the window in which all things become clear and I can see them for truly what they are. Christians are swimming upstream against the masses - just as homeschoolers are. It is common and to be expected that you will eventually bump heads with the fish going the other direction. If I were never to make waves and irritate others because of my homeschooling or Christianity, I would begin to wonder if I were successful at either. The devil is not concerned with you unless you are a thorn in his side... and that is exactly what I intend to be.
abiga51 - Thanks for your comment. :) Glad you could put up with the tedious nature of the debate long enough to read it.
Susan - Yes, sometimes the debating is fruitless... but many of the times, the debating is a way to keep your mental skills tip-top and leave seeds for others who might happen upon it vicariously. God's logic can not be denied... and somtimes just being willing to speak out in the darkness (even if you know you will not convince the other person) will bring truth to those who might be paying attention that wouldn't have heard it otherwise. I agree with you (and the Bible) wholeheartedly, though... that the lost are unable to please God or believe in Him.
I couldn't resist putting the scripture you spoke of in here:
1 Corinthians 2:14 ~ The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 1:21 ~ For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
and a few more...
Hebrews 11:6 ~ And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
and about the giving/getting of faith in Christ:
Matthew 11:27 ~ "All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."
Good stuff. Amen.
Julie...
You said, "debate in this country and others can be used to pursuade others to your point of view but mostly it is to solidify your beliefs to yourself."
I agree with you on this when it comes to views that line up with scripture. I feel that doing research to back your views helps you to broaden and expand them... and helps you to see the truth more clearly. I know this is the case when it comes to studying the Bible.
Where I would disagree with you is that debating will always bring about this kind of solidification of your views. I know that some people who have set out to disprove the Bible have ended up believing it. There are many ex-athiests (such as: Anthony Flew, C.S. Lewis, Lee Strobel, William Murray, Steve Beren, Francis Collins, Anna Haycraft, Alister McGrath, Enoch Powell, George R. Price, Edith Stein, Fay Weldon, John C. Wright, Ravi Zacharias, etc.) who now believe in God... some of them after years of researching to prove that He didn't exist or leading many others to fall from faith.
I also have homeschool skeptics in my own church. I also began trying to convince my husband and others that homeschooling was great when I started. This works sometimes, but not always. I've had family members who disagree with it, and some that are big supporters. I think I finally just started to do it because it was what I felt God wanted (why didn't I think of that in the first place?!) - even if others didn't pat me on the back or see the differences I did in my kids. It was after I quit jumping through other people's hoops or desiring their approval that my kids really started to shine (God was patting me on the back!). Without any effort to gain OTHER PEOPLE's APPROVAL, people started to notice even though I didn't care if they did or not. It is rather ironic now... that I get compliments (even from those who used to be opposed to homeschooling in my family) and am finally at a point when they are not so important to me. It is nice to hear them, but I sure could have used them more when I first started homeschooling! :)
I agree that we need to keep up with politics - they say that 'no one's life or liberty is safe when the congress is in session'. We also should be aware that even if we do our best to be active, sometimes bad things happen. We live in a fallen world and God says it is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. ;)
You said, "Debate keeps you sharp mentally". I agree. My husband and I love to debate at home and he is taking a college class on speaking right now. I'm enjoying the tidbits he brings home from school.
Thanks for your comments. I enjoyed them.
- heather aka Sprittibee
My initial reaction to this is simply…WOW. I will start by saying that this post is not meant to offend ANY of you. I agree with ALL of you…and NONE of you. If you are all as open-minded as you claim to be then perhaps you will read through this and walk away with a better view. I am only able to give my outside perspective I have formed from not taking anyone’s side. Sprittibee: I would like to say in a very nice way that your reaction to Adam’s statements were understandable. His content was offensive. However, If you were upset by Technorati’s comments posted on his blog, which I think it’s safe to assume you were, and you strongly felt the need to comment on them, then you should have done everything in your power to come across in a completely non offensive manner. If you were unable to do this then you should have left it alone. Yet who am I? Just an everyday unsuspecting girl who came across YOUR blog from a link from another homeschooling site. I was shocked and appalled at the backbiting demonstrated here. So here I am, trying to comment in the absolute nicest way possible. Everything on this particular strand of blog is in some way offensive to me. Adam: From what I understand Sprittibee posted a comment on your friends blog that you felt was less than appropriate. In turn it seems you tried to demonstrate your point by posting a nasty comment on her blog. While I do agree with the point you were trying to make, I disagree with your methods. Like Sprittibee should have, you should have tried to find the most non-offensive way to get your point across. She of course reacted to your very harsh post and so began the snowball effect. You are absolutely right in thinking she should not have judged your friend. If it bothered your friend, he should have sent her a polite email/blog post saying that he would appreciate her avoiding his blog in the future if she finds it’s contents offensive. Please understand I am not taking either side in this situation. The lines here are clearly drawn. Religion has been drawn into it, which I feel it should never have been. It’s better to stand and admit you were wrong than hide behind the veil of religion. God would never agree with any of you. Our countries have been drawn into it. To that I’d like to say: Raf, let us hope the world doesn’t formulate their opinions of Americans according to what they see on the Jerry Springer show. Many of us strongly disagree with what’s going on with our country right now. Sexual preferences have been drawn into it. It’s terrible. This isn’t a homeschooling website this is temper tantrum. Sprittibee, you obviously have faith, don’t you think God would want you to stop judging? That’s his job, not yours. I think if you prayed about it you would find that an apology is in order. Adam, regardless of your religion or lack there of. Religion isn’t what makes you a good or a bad person. Your choices do. You don’t have to believe in God to think “Hey you know maybe I did go about this the wrong way” I think you should apologize also. Neither of you should apologize for HAVING your opinions merely how you went about presenting them. Her I am giving my opinion. You don’t have to like it, you don’t have to agree with it. It is my responsibility to try and present it without offense. I truly hope I’ve done this. Take care everyone I how it works out for you all.
Jennifer - Do you have a blog? I didn't see a link on your name. How do I know you are Jennifer and not someone else? How can you agree with everyone and no-one here and yet feel so strongly that we all should tell each other we are sorry?
I am not sure you read all of the comments here on this post, but the reason Adam came here was because of a comment made on his friend's post, not on his own blog. That person didn't bother to post here. That person had offensive content on his own blog before I commented on his post (which I regret - because it is not like me to get involved in that kind of thing). That person's post (and blog in general) was derogatory towards Christians. I did not say anything ugly in my comment. Have you seen the original post where this comment was made? Or the blog on which it was made? Maybe you should look there and read it (here, here, here or here).
You state that I shouldn't judge others, and I am not judging them... just calling them down on their name-calling. No one likes to have someone calling them names.
About the "religion" thing, the ORIGINAL post in the other guy's blog was bashing religion - particularly CHRISTIANITY. I was not the one who "drug" religion into the discussion. The other guy's friend (Adam) came in here under false pretenses and attacked HOMESCHOOL. I had already responded to his homeschool comment before he revealed his purposes and we began discussing Christianity. I'm not sure why you feel I should apologize to this man, but I'm sorry you feel that way. I never meant anyone any harm in commenting on their blog... and you have to wonder why they would take offense to a Christian posting there (nicely) if they were bashing Christians/and had offensive content that was public on the internet. I don't bash atheists, drug-addicts, rock-stars, liberals, hippies, or other religions... so why I am I the one who should apologize?
No, I don’t have a blog. As for knowing if I really am Jennifer and not someone else, well you will just have to take my word for it I suppose. I stumbled into your blog via some home school carnival that had various home schooling posts from various people. Your “Top ten things I wish I had known about home schooling” just happened to be one of them. As for how I can agree with everyone and no one is very simple. Each of you has points that are right and each of you has points that are wrong. In my humble opinion of course. In regards to apologies, I will get back to that. I’d like to say that I did in fact read ALL of the comments posted and I fully understand why Adam Lavey came into your blog. You state, “That person (referring to Karl Bakla) didn’t bother to post here.” That persons girlfriend and the mother of the child you were commenting on DID in fact “bother to post here” That person (again this man Karl Bakla) absolutely did have offensive content on his blog, and you did in fact comment on it. Which seems to have started this entire line. I have in fact seen the original and the blog on which it was made. This was the comment you left on his blog:
“Wow. I got sucked in here by Technorati, but was amazed that you would use that kind of language in a post with your daughter's photo. Does she hear you say things like this? Does she know you are "talking s--t about people"? I'll pray for your family and your little girl. You should take it as a compliment that some little Christian kid told your daughter about God. It means they CARE. When you have something good, it is quite natural to want to share the news with others.
P.S. I probably won't come back in here to read your snide remarks after I post this, so if you want to leave one on my blog (without cuss words), feel free.”
What’s not funny about this is #1 do you think by eliminating the “hi” from the word “s—t” that it’s not cussing? #2 your comment “You should take it as a compliment that some little Christian kid told your daughter about God. It means they CARE. When you have something good, it is quite natural to want to share the news with others.” Is completely off base, perhaps you didn’t read HIS blog correctly. “Some little Christian kid” wasn’t telling his little girl about God. “Some little Christian kid” according to his post, was telling his little girl that she was going to hell. That’s not showing you CARE, and it’s not sharing something good with others. #3 you say you are not judging others…”just calling them down on their name calling” But you are in fact judging. You are judging the most personal thing about us as parents…our parenting. It is the one thing that can get under the most docile persons skin. I am a mother of four. A very good one. I teach my children it isn’t nice to use the words “idiot” and “stupid” I’ve taught them their meanings and explained that ANY word used in a derogatory manner can be hurtful. Does that give me the right to tell anyone else how to raise his or her child? Absolutely not. Here in your post to Adam Levay you state, “I deleted your original post. Please don't put cuss words in here (even those that are mildly altered). I am on a "family-friendly" blogroll and it is a strict rule I adhere to.” Yet in YOUR post to this Karl Bakla you put “mildly altered” cuss words. Because he has a mouth like a drunken sailor it’s ok for you to disregard rules you set for your own blog on someone else’s? The original post to my eyes was merely an angry parent venting his frustrations in a way that was not the best. This guy Adam did in fact come in and start bashing Home school. I definitely did not agree with his methods there. He was trying to get a point across to you. At least I believe he was. I think the point he was trying to make was “Don’t go into someone’s blog who you don’t know and start bashing them when you don’t understand the situation and you are merely passing judgment” As for why you should apologize. You should apologize for the comment you made on this man Karl Bakla’s website judging his parenting by the language he was using on his website. If you wanted to make a comment you should have READ his post clearly and then I would have, being a Christian woman myself, commented by saying “I’m very sorry someone said those things to your little girl. I hope you know that all Christians are not like this. Many of us respect others beliefs and raise our children to do the same” Your make the statement “. and you have to wonder why they would take offense to a Christian posting there (nicely) if they were bashing Christians/and had offensive content that was public on the internet.” Of course they are going to take offense, you criticizing their parenting over a single blog entry. As far as you posting there “nicely” It was not nice. It was judgmental, hypocritical, and condescending. That is what you should apologize for. Though from your last post I have to say I think you have really missed the boat on this one. Perhaps you’ve failed to pray about it. I know I have. That doesn’t make me better than anyone else. It just makes it easier to follow the cliché saying “What would Jesus Do?” I don’t think you are the only one who should apologize and I don’t think you were the only one who was wrong, but being a Christian woman you would think you would be the bigger person and take the first step. The “I’m not saying sorry until HE says HE’S sorry first! Or Why should I say I’m sorry I didn’t do anything wrong” mentality is rather juvenile. Of course you are not entirely in the right. People seldom are. This isn’t meant to offend you. It’s always hard to admit when we have been wrong. But setting Christianity aside, recognizing our mistakes and correcting them is what makes us good people. It’s the Christian thing to do. Above and beyond that it’s the right thing to do. You quite possibly would get a “yeah right, up your’s” response. In the end you would have done the right thing.
Jennifer:
When my son was a little baby of only 2-3 told one of his uncles that smoking was wrong and that if you sin, you would go to hell. Can you expect a three year old, however, to know how to get a message across like that tactfully? He can’t explain that the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit and that we should try and protect our bodies and offer them to Christ for good work and not to vices. All he knew was that smoking was not something Mommy and Daddy wanted him to do, and that doing wrong things was sin… and that sin was bad and led to hell. We heard him say this and told the Uncle we were sorry he said that. The uncle only laughed and said he understood. I don’t believe smoking will send you to hell, even though I do believe it is something God doesn’t want you to do. A lot of Christianity is about pleasing God because you WANT to rather than following a rules checklist like the outside world sees it. I smoked for 8 years and am glad to be free of it and thank God for helping me to see how destructive it was to my life and His plan for me.
I doubt my children understand the deeper aspects of WHY you shouldn’t smoke or cuss or whatever else… but they learn more and more as they grow into their own understanding of God and Christianity. They know that ONLY GOD knows who will go to heaven and hell. They know that many people in the church will probably go to hell just like people outside of the church. They understand that they are required to live for Christ and first concern themselves with their example and their own relationship with Christ before looking to lead others to Jesus. How much of that did they know when they were five, six, or seven? I don’t know. I do know that they care for other people that we meet who are not Christians and that they care for family members who are not Christians. I do know that they have prayed for many of these people over the years. Who knows, maybe they have even tried to tell a few of the people they have encountered while I was not present about God. I would hope they would not have told anyone that they were going to hell.
Kids don’t always say things in a way that is socially acceptable. A young kid doesn’t have much tact when it comes to evangelism. My point in commenting to Karl (who seems to be already at odds with Christians) was that his daughter’s classmate might have told her about hell because he DID care about her. I never condoned the method of this statement by saying that the child “cared”.
My use of the “s—t” was a direct quote from his blog’s title area where he admits that he talks ugly about people. It wasn’t something I typed to him on my own. However, in a legalist viewpoint, I see that typing it back in a comment section might be construed as the same thing as typing it in your blog title (even with the quotation marks around it to show that I was copying it).
I admit that reading Karl’s blogs ruffled my feathers. Offensive content tends to do that. That’s precisely why I don’t read blogs with offensive content as most other people who are offended by it don’t. I’ll admit that my comment to him could have been less smart. I’ll admit that it wasn’t even very Christ-like. Being right is not as important to me as being right with God. You are right in assuming that criticizing someone’s parenting skills is a little below the belt. That is what really got me thinking and praying about this last night after your last comment. I don’t do that to other Christian friends who may be more lax in their discipline or doctrine than I am… so I shouldn’t have done it to Karl. For that, I’ll certainly tell him I’m sorry. I feel that your message in here was partly the Spirit showing me that while I know the Truth, it still must be shared in LOVE to be effective for God’s purposes. Thank you for reminding me. I can apologize to Karl (despite his reponse) without agreeing with his stance on cussing, so that is what I’ll do. I do wish the best for him and for his girlfriend and their kids. If people are always slamming him because of his sin, he won’t ever see that Jesus is about love.
Post a Comment